Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Himalayan Clouds (Read 172 times)
WildCityWoman
Supreme Member
*****
Offline


Yeah - me again! Still
rockin'!

Posts: 4415
Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: Sep 19th, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #13 - Mar 25th, 2012 at 10:41am
Print Post  
I don't fly much, but in 2006 I had to fly back from Vancouver to Toronto. I had taken sick out there and knew I was too ill for the 3 day train ride. 

Coming down from (not Kamloops - can't think of the town, which also begins with a K), it was necessary to catch the flight home in Vancouver. 

As we landed, we first circled over the strait (whaddya callit, I've forgotten). Where the black water is - it's called something to that effect. 

But the clouds ... this poem here describes my reaction to that. I was so fascinated I forgot two things;

1) I was flying!

2) I was sick.

I know I'm supposed to give critique in this section - forgive me, but I'm still taking in the two versions of the poem, and reading what the others have suggested.

My only thought on it was to remove the IFS, ANDS, etc. And yes - there's no reason for 'majestic'. If you don't want to let go of the word, maybe use 'majesty' somewhere.

It's a lovely poem, with startling images.

Carly
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #12 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 7:34am
Print Post  
Thanks Terence for your suggestions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Terence
Gold Star Member
*****
Offline


in an English country
garden ...

Posts: 900
Joined: Mar 15th, 2006
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #11 - Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:26am
Print Post  
sunilmathur wrote on Jan 6th, 2012 at 6:13pm:
Revision

The weather was wet and cloudy; don't need ";"
and as the plane took off from Kathmandu,  perhaps say "our" plane
the majestic Himalayas were seen below "were seen" not very good, might want to change to "Himalayas below" next line "were"
covered with thick, green forests, don't need comma at end
interspersed with meandering paths
carved out by rivers and streams.
But it was the clouds that stole the show,
appearing as fluffy balls of cotton
floating in the sky,    don't need comma at end of line
or nestling against mountain peaks; you could omit "or"; definitely omit ";" at end and I would end with a period, omitting the next line - don't plane vapors stream behind?
or seen as layers of vapor surging ahead.
Fascinating as this panorama was,
it was a sight to watch when the plane
wandered into a fairyland of clouds
encircling it on all sides.
They seemed to be mountains of snow
outshining the real snowy peaks
which they hid from view;
as they hid everything else:  at least change ":" to a comma or omit
even the blue sky,
scarcely visible through crevices.  I don't feel any sense of danger, awe or other emotion with this ending. Something more dramatic would help such as "as we swooped between the crevices"




Hi Sunil, your poem brings back some memories of being in a small plane. What I remember most, apart from seeing a hurricane nearby - in a larger plane, was the buffetting we received.

Hope something helps, Terence

« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2012 at 5:28am by Terence »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2012 at 10:55am
Print Post  
Thanks Thoth for the suggested version which offers a new perspective to work on.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Thoth
Full Member
***
Offline


Of desert and Mountain

Posts: 62
Location: South Africa
Joined: Aug 24th, 2009
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2012 at 2:15pm
Print Post  
Hi Sunil

OK, This is a technique I am trying to teach you, not a critique. Please allow me to use the content of your original script to create a completely new poem as an example.

What I will do is cut out all un-necessary words and then use the material left to directly paint a fantasy scene. No narrators opinions and thoughts, no simile – just pure fantasy. The reader knows from the introduction exactly where you are in reality. 

Then the ending must be powerful to leave the reader in suspense. Don’t be sacred to embellish liberally, take poetic licence where you can, remember it’s not a documentary of what the writer actually saw (no-one is really interested) but how the image stimulated your imagination. Those fleeting thoughts are  made into real (fantasy) characters that impact emotionally on the writer but this impact is implied not stated.

There are three parts to this scene;

1.      Set the stage to place the reader in the location you want him.(In this case, in a small vulnerable aircraft uncomfortably close to the Himalayas. ) We don’t really want the reader in a safe airliner twenty thousand feet up and abstractly observing some clouds passing below. We want him involved and a little insecure so use the terms “we, us, our” rather than “me, I, my” )
2.      Embellish the scene and introduce characters and actions. Those that you imagined at the time are perfectly good. 
3.      To create a dramatic ending that would have been terrifying, the boundary  between fantasy and reality is deliberately blurred and an element of danger introduced. Then leave the reader suspended in mid flight with almost a prayer on his lips.

Lastly, choose a title that will attract a reader as well as pre-loading an idea into his mind.

This is just my example of how I would go about it, but of course it’s your poem so you may do it any way you please. I hope you find this useful or at least as inspiring as your original poem was to me.

Cheers,

Wally


[quote][b]Flying with Monsters[/b]

Icy fingers slice down from the Himalayas 
to buffet our little plane climbing out from Kathmandu.

Emerald forest, deeply cut by meandering rivers 
provides a quilted stage on which 
vaporous cloud formations gather.
Mythical creatures rise to dance
between gleaming snow-capped peaks and clouds.

A white rampant lion rears high, roaring at the heavens.
Straddling mountaintops, it claws 
at the very parapets of Olympus but
moments later is masterfully subdued 
by a graceful goddess clad in a flowing satin gown. 
Wraithlike subjects rise respectfully to applaud the drama 
before dissolving into a fluffy curtain
that closes on a fairytale scene.

Banking hard to skirt the mile high backdrop, 
our aircraft plunges directly into the smoking maw 
of an outlandish raging dragon where
sky, mountain and cloud become one.

In the lap of gods we fly.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2012 at 2:49pm by Thoth »  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #8 - Jan 15th, 2012 at 11:54am
Print Post  
Thanks Wally and Tim for your suggestions. And Wally, if you can give an example as illustration, that would be fine.
Sunil
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4134
Location: near dusk with a halo of gnats
Joined: Nov 3rd, 2005
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2012 at 12:50am
Print Post  
Wally,

Yes, that is what I was trying to say while directing my advice at the work specifically;
but I think your spot-on, I feel emotionally charged in the first version, and yet
the second is clearer.

Namaste,
~Tim
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Thoth
Full Member
***
Offline


Of desert and Mountain

Posts: 62
Location: South Africa
Joined: Aug 24th, 2009
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #6 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 7:38pm
Print Post  
Hello Sunil
Coming in at a late stage, I rather enjoyed the revision which has been severely pruned. This is a very difficult type of sketch to attempt because the magnitude of the spectacle is just so grand that even the best poet will struggle to find expression.  

The sketch is good and probably accurate but has turned out prosy and reads like a documentary, lacking romance and feelings. Poetry is all about conveying emotions to the reader and all I feel here is a monotonic commentary. In this respect, your original was far superior in my opinion as you described what you actually felt and the images that came to mind at the time of experiencing the scene. If I may offer some advice, use metaphor rather than simile as it is much more powerful. Try to take the reader into the spectacle by tickling the imagination. At the same time, cut out all words that don’t contribute directly to the sketch. This will reduce the length which is a problem in the first version.  Another thing to consider is your tenses. Present tense can be more exciting as the reader is involved rather than being given a history lesson. I think this is what Tim is trying to say.

If you wish I can offer a short example to illustrate what I mean.

Cheers,
Wally
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2012 at 7:46pm by Thoth »  
Back to top
YIM  
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #5 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 12:58pm
Print Post  
Thanks Tim for your reply. In clarification of the point raised by you, it may be stated that the mountains described at the beginning were those seen just below, as the plane was ascending from Kathmandu. These were covered with lush green forests without any snow. Later, a few snow clad peaks also became visible in the distant horizon. It is these that have been referred to in the last portion of the poem. I am not able to figure out how to clarify this point in the poem.

Namaste
Sunil
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2012 at 1:06pm by sunilmathur »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4134
Location: near dusk with a halo of gnats
Joined: Nov 3rd, 2005
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 10:38pm
Print Post  
Hello Again sunilmathur,

Actually no, I didn't find the illusion confusing at all. Let me simplify my earlier response.
I like the idea of the clouds over the Himalayas mirroring the landscape below,
like Narcissus staring at a watery-cloudy self in the pool. That's what I got from
the version you originally posted.

Now, with the "original" version you posted up as the revision, I think
given the magnificence of the Himalayas, and the magnificence the N was struck
by when entering those clouds, I feel your revision (read: original post)
maintains elevated language (no pun) that serves the context rightly.

In fact, I would simplify the beginning of the first post with the beginning
of the "original" version. In other words, start with more mundane language
before and let the elevation trigger elevation. Here's what I mean:


The plane rocked gently after take off 
from Kathmandu; the Himalayas outlined a sheer
continuity of slopes and valleys. Enveloping...



The word "majestic" will come through in the word choice; omit it.
To use a fiction writing critique, with what's available
so far, push the action forward. Let us swoon with the imagery
but don't overmodify the work (i.e. watch the adverbs
and adjectives. Make sure the verbs are the strongest).

Lastly, the forests envelope around the base of the mountain range,
right? Those mountains are more than snow-capped usually,
aren't they? As in the majority of them is snow-covered.
I ask because I've only got pictures to base my opinion. If so,
it might help to relate that detail, because I read the poem
thinking that the mountains were carpeted with trees
with snowy peaks. If that's true, cool. I rely on this poem 
to tell me the truth of that place's beauty.

Does that clarify my earlier thoughts? Good luck.

Namaste,
~Tim
« Last Edit: Jan 8th, 2012 at 10:39pm by Tim »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2012 at 12:39pm
Print Post  
Thanks Joe and Tim for your comments. What I understood from them is that there is some confusion because of the use of the word 'illusion' used in connection with various shapes in which clouds appear. Maybe the word 'illusion' doesn't convey the meaning properly. If we have ever observed clouds intently from an aeroplane, we might agree that they do appear in all types of shapes resembling various physical objects, such as fluffy balls of cotton, or an animal like a lion, or a human being, or even a goddess (maybe the reference to Greek goddess was unnecessary). In keeping with your opinions, I am now presenting the initial version, as it was more concise.
Namaste.
Sunil
« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2012 at 1:05pm by sunilmathur »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Tim
Supreme Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4134
Location: near dusk with a halo of gnats
Joined: Nov 3rd, 2005
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2012 at 8:35am
Print Post  
Greetings sunilmathur,

For a few times, I've tried to write from the viewpoint in an airplane en route and capture
the experience. This poem unabashedly depicts that experience. Unabashedly, 
because I think the modifiers are overwhelming some intriguing images and comparisons,
such as this: "...like mountains of snow...outshining the real snowy peaks."

But the comparison of a the clouds as the plane ascends to dense forest covering the Himalayas
is more intriguing. That the N sees the beauty of those mountains, and is later
overwhelmed as we brought into the air and end there. I see it. That's working.

Placing the reader on the plane (being rocked) on the first line is smart.
On first pass, I thought L2 could be removed neatly, trimming the fat;
however, the normally understood "dizzying height" is an element
that could be left if it is a baseline for the emotional change
from looking down on the landscape to the wonderment of the skyscape.

Ultimately, I won't manhandle this piece and break out the scissors.
I'll close with the question: is there an emotional change
that occurs through the ascension of the plane? Focusing on the
observation of nature as it's own a-ha is not working for me
here. I want it to work. Much to like here, too much.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Namaste,
~Tim
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
josephfinkleman
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 396
Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: Sep 7th, 2005
Re: Himalayan Clouds
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2012 at 12:19am
Print Post  
There seems to be way too much verbiage, too many descriptive words, it becomes over rich and cloying.  The pieces intent I think is to contrast some sort of illusion, which occurs to the poet after a lengthy description.  Followed with another description somehow maybe being the reality as a contrast for the illusion of a "Greek Goddess".   

The poem needs a lot of paring down, and in truth it doesn't seem like the contrast, if that was what was intended is established enough to be a contrast.

But, from "the plane
wandered into 
clouds like mountains of snow
encircled us on all sides,
outshining the real snowy peaks
which they hid from view,
as they hid everything else,
even the blue sky
scarcely visible through crevices."

That part of the poem is terrific.

Joe
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
sunilmathur
Topic Starter Topic Starter
Full Member
***
Offline


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 151
Location: Allahabad, India
Joined: Dec 23rd, 2003
Himalayan Clouds
Jan 6th, 2012 at 6:13pm
Print Post  
Revision

The weather was wet and cloudy;
and as the plane took off from Kathmandu,
the majestic Himalayas were seen below
covered with thick, green forests,
interspersed with meandering paths
carved out by rivers and streams.
But it was the clouds that stole the show,
appearing as fluffy balls of cotton
floating in the sky,    
or nestling against mountain peaks;
or seen as layers of vapor surging ahead.
Fascinating as this panorama was,
it was a sight to watch when the plane
wandered into a fairyland of clouds
encircling it on all sides.
They seemed to be mountains of snow
outshining the real snowy peaks
which they hid from view;
as they hid everything else:
even the blue sky,
scarcely visible through crevices.

Original

Patterns of air gently rocked the plane 
as its moistened wings took dizzying height
over Kathmandu.
The majestic Himalayas outlined below
struck awe with the sheer continuity 
of their slopes and valleys,
resplendent with the enveloping green of dense forests
interwoven with the meandering paths of rivers and streams.
The beauty below was reflected 
in the unending panorama that unfolded above; 
clouds appearing in myriad forms and shapes:
seen as fluffy balls of cotton floating in the sky 
or nestling against mountain peaks,
or as layers of vapor surging ahead;
reminding now of a mighty lion 
looming large  in the distant horizon;
or yet again of  some Greek goddess 
overlooking the scene.
Illusions could be fascinating,
I thought wonderingly.
Then all at once the plane
wandered into a fairyland of clouds
which, like mountains of snow
encircled us on all sides, 
outshining the real snowy peaks
which they hid from view,
as they hid everything else,
even the blue sky
scarcely visible through crevices.
« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2012 at 12:44pm by sunilmathur »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send TopicPrint