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Tim
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #7 - Jun 12th, 2015 at 3:50am
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Norm,

I think I was getting there. And, of course, I know the poet, now, beforehand.
I may have been dense that day. David seemed to understand.
But, unlocking it was a pleasure, as your poems often are.

Namaste,
~Tim
  
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #6 - Jun 5th, 2015 at 6:21pm
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Tim et al,

About the words Antecedent and Internment:
Antecedent (other definitions besides the linking back to the pronoun's source)
noun:   a preceding occurrence or cause or event
noun:   anything that precedes something similar in time
noun:   someone from whom you are descended (but usually more remote than a grandparent)
adjective:   preceding in time or order 

Internment:
noun:   confinement during wartime
noun:   the act of confining someone in a prison (or as if in a prison) 

"If by some miracle this ramble hit upon the thrust of the poem, I admire the title for its multiplicity in meaning, yet I couldn't unlock the poem without knowing the poet. If I haven't unlocked the poem, I readily admit I'm at loss. "

No, Tim .. not lost, But if the reader cannot "unlock the poem without knowing the poet" then I think I have failed. Perhaps I could have chosen a better title to nudge the reader to the holocaust, but "antecedent" was exactly what I was looking for here-- a looking back -- a reference that should not be a forgotten -- that the he's, she's, they's were human beings with names and lives -- we have to remember more than the shoes we stare at when visiting a holocaust museum.

Just thoughts --- but sober thoughts.

Thanks for diving in and having me re-visit this

Norm
  
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Tim
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #5 - Jun 2nd, 2015 at 3:25pm
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Hello Norm,

I'm having problems decoding this one. Antecedent is the thing that comes before others in an a sequence. Grammatically speaking, in this poem, "them" normally would refer to "time" and "history" but I feel like the ambiguity of the ending, the turn which pans out away from the "he" to a wider abstraction with the "he" still implied, is referring to people of which the ellipsis is suggesting a conflation between those two.

Survivor also comes earlier pushing the notion of people--which pushes the notion of conflation. 

If I cheat and use my knowledge of Norm's previous work, then I return to the notion of legacy to insert that into "hope." 

All this said, the idea of what the "he" wants is never stated, but the poem seems to be concerned with the feeling of not obtaining whatever it is. "[I]n spirit" suggests (and I am reading in heavily here) that the "he" feels incorporeal, ghost-like in the state of unobtain-ment (?) a kind of imprisonment or internment. 

If I cheat further, and scroll down to your response to nas, I think about the Holocaust. And since I can't shake that overlay, I'm going with it. Now, the "he" is undergoing an internment, looking up at the moon in a way in which those in the camps might have done so, whilst the "he" is reflecting upon the treatment of history and temporal distance from those events in WWII in "his" current time. 

If by some miracle this ramble hit upon the thrust of the poem, I admire the title for its multiplicity in meaning, yet I couldn't unlock the poem without knowing the poet. If I haven't unlocked the poem, I readily admit I'm at loss. Knowing Norm, tells me that both personal legacy and cultural legacy is entwined in this piece and should be read together and a key that normally would be given to move in one direction or the other, steers the reader away from the one that a key is not provided for. 

Close? 

Namaste,
~Tim
  
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #4 - May 29th, 2015 at 10:17am
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nas,

"Soon no one will be left to remember - what happens then? "

The deniers win!

Norm
  
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #3 - May 29th, 2015 at 10:16am
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David,

"This sent chill spine."    Yes -- exactly.

Norm
  
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #2 - May 29th, 2015 at 6:16am
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Soon no one will be left to remember - what happens then?
  
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Re: Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
Reply #1 - May 29th, 2015 at 2:29am
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Norm
This sent chill spine.  Great stuff!
~Davidf
  
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Antecedent  CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015
May 29th, 2015 at 12:27am
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Antecedent   CA Run 5 of 15 - 2015

With all hope dashed asunder,
he waits upon the moon.
Time left him here to wonder
if some way he could attune
himself in spirit. Maybe soon,
survivor memories left behind,
time and history...so unkind
will bury them six feet under
  
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