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sierra
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #8 - May 14th, 2006 at 12:25am
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Hey there Tim ~

Quote:

2. The genus name of daffodil is Narcissus (from the famous Greek character that drowned himself attempting to embrace his image--just in case you didn't know  Wink ). 3. Daffodil is (surpise) a narcotic, once used to treat epilepsy. What does this all mean in regards to your sonnet?


Thanks for the info chunk & corresponding chuckles  Smiley

Yes it is rough, raw and bewildering.  I'm not sure what I plan to do with it. It seems like too much work right now and I'm not sure what it's worth to me.  Thank you for your time (I haven't even gotten a chance to go over your crit from the other forum yet Undecided)  I hope to break free from whatever it is that has bound my inspiration.

take care ~
  
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Tim
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #7 - May 11th, 2006 at 9:42pm
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Helloooo Yvonne,

i would say that Mr. Jenkins' review is very helpful. i did do so research and found out a few things regarding daffodils. 1. A variant of daffodils do bulb and open in the fall. 2. The genus name of daffodil is Narcissus (from the famous Greek character that drowned himself attempting to embrace his image--just in case you didn't know  Wink ). 3. Daffodil is (surpise) a narcotic, once used to treat epilepsy. What does this all mean in regards to your sonnet?

The two structural problems i see with this piece are large enough that i will hold off offering metric/syntax help until you are certain with the layoff of this one. 

The first problem: You expressed to Mr. Jenkins you were uncertain as to the time setting. i think the title and point one from above pretty much puts the narrator (from now on just N) in the autumn longing for the spring.

The other problem: Also as you mentioned, the couplet is not supported well enough in the previous stanzas. It is the final couplet that you should consider working backwards into the poem and incorporate how these two lines will work. In fact, understanding nature's crafts(person)ship is not addressed at all.

For example--the first line about 'falling to earth' is not inferred anywhere except with the leaves. This makes me think that the N is either an angel, bird or sitting in a tree. 

Since the theme is comparing nature to a work of art i would consider changing "trail" of mortal strokes in the last line to something that reflects art like 'canvas' or 'composition', etc.

If this Petrarchan in style, then perhaps S2 could be a combination of both depiction of the path to the daffodils and the uncertainity of the N. This could be accomplished by alterating the point of view from the N knowing where this pond to discovering (or rhetorically rediscovering) it and realizing (again) that daffodils give warm, beauty even in this time of the year. 
This would put your turn on the traditional L9 and you could go from there.

Yes, per usual i said too much. Hope this helps. 
Cheers ~tim
  
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sierra
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2006 at 5:23pm
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but my head is spinning to discern which direction your are going with this.][/b]
[/b]



I came back today to see if there was a new spark for this--I'm sorry I didn't realize you had gone through this and offered up such help ???  Thanks!  The biggest problem is that I had two parts of two completely different set of ideas for a poem and I thought I could blend the two experimentally Undecided  I seriously failed trying to portray a "canvas" or "painting" which was what I really was aiming for.  I wanted to use a line "canvas bearing colors of the dead" somewhere early on....needless to say, I seem to be going nowhere with this! 
I can see how I have the transition many lines too early, gee, I think there are two transitions!   
You gave me some more useful thoughts, and I hope they (and Terence's input) will get me moving in the right direction.  What I need to do is decide which season I'm in, lol--The first part was initially written in the early winter (late, late autumn), and the rest was a blend of newly created thoughts this spring, and the last two lines were from a line I jotted down in a notebook some time ago.......which is probably the reason it doesn't make a lot of sense!  I know I need to work on this--I will let you guys know how things are coming, if anything comes to me that seems to work!

Yvonne
  
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #5 - May 5th, 2006 at 4:18pm
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Yvonne,

It seems to me that the Poem Train might be included in the "crisp and fragile rustlings of the dead", so I'll try to breathe a little Spring into things.

I think you have a good start here, but a bit of 
pruning and a few adjustments to the soil could really make this bloom beautifully. 

Specific thoughts are within the text...

Doug

**************


November leaves are spiraling to ground,

[I stumbled with the iambics on spiraling, which I scan more as SPI-ral-ing, rather than the forced SPI-ra-LING. The word's sound mimicks its meaning by starting high (accented) and plummeting downward (two unaccented syllables).

surrounding me in droves and tones of dread.

[I think this could be stronger, more evocotive. You use two different nouns here, droves and tones, but they are as dead as the leaves you are describing. 

I would suggest using one or the other and applying an adjective to bring theier death to life. Pehaps something like:
...surrounding me in droves of amber dread, or, 
... surrounding me with tones of amber dread/amber tones of dread...

I like the use of tones, because it can have dual meanings that relate to both the color (here in this line) and sound of the leaves implied in L4.]



Their brittle bodies freely roam around[;]
like [a] crisp and fragile rustling of the dead.

But sunlight resurrects the trees and hills[,..delete comma]  [As I interpret this, the sunlight resurrects, is a metaphor for spring returning. If so, the volta, or the change of mood/direction within the poem, is four lines too early. Generally speaking, the shift occurs at L9; you have it at L5.]

across the road[,] and near [nearby] a little pond, 
[Ponds are, by definition, little; find something else to use here that punctuates the pond for my senses.]

where I can always see the daffodils [Perhaps...where I observe a burst of daffodils...]
that stain the browning grass a yellow-blond 

[There are several things going on here that I think need some help. 

First, you have two antithetical events occurring simultaneously: grass that's browning/dying, and daffodils that are growing. One would expect both to be growing in the sping of the year. 

Secondly, stain has a negative quality that goes against your intent. Perhaps something like endows/ing, would work better. 

Thirdly, nature, and thus the daffodil, is generally considered feminine. Therefore, blond, should be spelled blonde, with an "e". 

Thus, L7-8 might look like this...

where I observe a burst of daffodils
endow the still brown grass with yellow-blonde...



from sun to sun[.] [T]his blotted life must be[;] 
[I'm not crazy about blotted, which would relate to my previously mentioned dislike of stain. Both words carry a neagtive intonation that is contray to the idea of life spring forth anew.]

like in the spring when cherry blooms unfold 

[Blooms should be blossoms, but that will cause a real fungus to grow on your meter and rhyme schemes; Not sure what to suggest.]

and catch the nearest breeze to wander free 
among these thoughts that spin within the cold.

I’ll fall to earth before I understand,
this trail of mortal strokes by nature’s hand.

[The couplet throws me completely. From reading  this alone, I would gather that you are lamenting the cycle of life and death. But the use of daffodils implies that autumn (and by default, winter) has passed and spring is returning, as daffodils are typically the first flowers to bloom in the spring of the year. Perhaps its just my own fogginess, but my head is spinning to discern which direction your are going with this.]


©Yvonne Sitki

Just some thoughts,

Doug
  
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sierra
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #4 - Apr 27th, 2006 at 5:31pm
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Terence ~

I will give myself a few days and see where I may go with this--hope we can pick up here Undecided

I'm reading S2 (your version and mine) exactly the same with a few words flip-flopped and the addition of a redundant 'spring'  I think the larger problem begins with the construction of this as a whole.  It seems fruitless to me to begin on S2 when I'm unsettled from the start, lol.  

Thanks for taking time with this--I hope to be back soon!

take care ~

Yvonne


Quote:

Perhaps this will give you start on some other adjustments while your muse catches up with you. 

« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2006 at 5:31pm by sierra »  
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #3 - Apr 26th, 2006 at 8:24pm
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Yvonne,

S1 seems basically fine to me. Here are a few minor changes to S2 that helped me read it better.

"But Spring then resurrects the trees and hills. 
Across the field, beside a little pond,
is where I always see the daffodils. 
They stain the browning grass a yellow-blond"

nb I wasn't sure about 'the road' as that sounds place-specific, which it may be to you. 'a road' or 'a field' is more generic but is too much like 'a little pond'.

Perhaps this will give you start on some other adjustments while your muse catches up with you. 

        Terence
  
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sierra
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #2 - Apr 26th, 2006 at 6:49pm
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Hi Terence ~

Thank you for your comments and honestly--I had been away for a while and felt hurried to post something.  I really have had no luck with anything meaningful to write--I'm not sure if it's lack of inspiration or what.  I began writing two others, and none of them made any sense either--this is the only one I "finished"--and obviously it isn't!  What I tried to do is combine a dream into something real--I had a wierd one back in the fall that was the setting of the first stanza.  Then I tried to incorporate the spring setting, and intertwine the two.  I'm sorry you didn't get the ending couplet--you are probably not alone, lol!  I'm just wondering about life and death ~

Yvonne
  
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Re: Like in the Spring
Reply #1 - Apr 25th, 2006 at 8:59pm
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Hi Yvonne,

     It’s a little quiet just now so let me give some feedback on your Shakespearean sonnet.

You seem to have the form and meter down perfectly. I’m not sure that you need the commas where they are. You already have a pause at the end of S1 L1 so I don’t know you need that comma. In S2, if the ‘little pond’ is where you see the daffodils I would tend to move the comma from after ‘pond’ to after ‘road’. I’ve tried other combinations of related subjects in S2 without coming up with a good read with ‘across the road’.
Other than that, as often happens, I’m not getting the metaphor that would help me understand the couplet.

     A good addition to our collection.  Smiley

            Terence
  
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sierra
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Like in the Spring
Apr 20th, 2006 at 12:57pm
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November leaves are spiraling to ground,
surrounding me in droves and tones of dread.
Their brittle bodies freely roam around
like crisp and fragile rustling of the dead.

But sunlight resurrects the trees and hills,
across the road and near a little pond,
where I can always see the daffodils
that stain the browning grass a yellow-blond

from sun to sun; this blotted life must be
like in the spring when cherry blooms unfold
and catch the nearest breeze to wander free 
among these thoughts that spin within the cold.

I’ll fall to earth before I understand,
this trail of mortal strokes by nature’s hand.


©Yvonne Sitki
« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2006 at 12:58pm by sierra »  
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